Friday/Weekend Open Thread
Foreclosures have doubled since this time last year. Nevada was hardest hit with 1 in 43 home owners receiving a foreclosure notice.
A shooter injured 3 people at a Phoenix-area community college computer lab. The shooter was involved in an altercation with another student, which turned violent.
Submitted by stinerman on Fri, 2008-07-25 07:28
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Good morning
Market Turmoil
has some turning away from decades of deregulation.
Is laissez-faire economics on the way out?
After the savings-and-loan system collapsed in the 1980s, the government spent $125 billion seizing failed S&Ls and selling off their loans. Let's see who was President at that time? Was it also a Bush?
Here is some history
on the other savings and loan crises.
Whatever happened to Neil Bush anyway?
It is the economy, stupid.
He does software
Neil Bush is involved with an educational software company, AFAIK. In an odd twist of events my fiancée had his personal cell phone number for a reason related to her job.
I can't recall why, but I remember her asking me who Neil Bush was and why she should be so excited about having his number. Apparently her then-employer thought he was really hot stuff for knowing the guy.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Doesn't Neil
have one of those special exclusive no bid type contracts for his education software program that is required as a part of No Child Left Behind.
It is the economy, stupid.
Can't confirm or deny
I can't say for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Who are you?
Olympic ticket sale in Beijing starts stampede
A sign of things to come?
'We haven't had that spirit here since 1969' [I know wrong kind of spirit
]
As Gene Hackman said in Young Frankenstein
[Lines are] good. [lines are] good, yes. [Lines are] our friend, yes. Let me show you, let me show you. You see, you see, yeah. Do you have your [spot in line]? Let me see, let me see. Alright. Now now now. Now, just hold it right there. Now, don't [push people over and let the others behind you stampede over the fallen] ."
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
You have a
very unique way of putting things -- it's refreshing =)
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
He's been like that forever
My friend Brutus has always spoken in such language. Whenever he comes over to my house I have to re-orient myself to his manner of speaking.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Who knew Hussein's WMD were hiding in plain sight all along?
Don Asmussen shows us!
PS - just as a service to the Rovians of the intertubes, that is Saddam Hussein, not BHO.....btw - continued actions on those lines will upset the actual fear mongers and slander artists as you are giving them a bad name.
BHO's secret monkey bar past
Can we really trust a south paw?
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
I hadn't known that he was a "lefty" till I saw him shoot that
basketball the other day. That's when I said to my significant other - Jeez, I didn't know he was left handed.
I can't say enough how much Digby rocks.
Take this post from yesterday, Political Participation - The Real Fascism
, where she points out that the Jonah Goldbergs (Obama is the leader of a new fascist revolution)of the media that the downward redefining of fascist to include:
"The right has always held a goal of minimizing political participation; normally this is done through voter suppression, onerous voter ID or ballot access laws, and generally disenfranchising those for whom it is hardest to engage in the process. Now they've taken it a step further, basically planting the seed that ANY participation whatsoever, not just voting but showing up for a rally or working a phone bank or donating money, is toxic and inherently fascistic. Because their deficit in this election year is enthusiasm, they're trying to make such support and excitement untenable."
She also points out the concern trolls of CNN & the race baiting of Bill O'Liely, but these days that isn't news, that's normal.
Redstate is such a joke these days
So they send out an action item email saying that Obama canceled a trip to meet wounded troops because he "could not bring himself to meet with American soldiers who had been injured in Iraq and Afghanistan. Instead, he wanted to go shopping."
They have a front page post up with a "Graphic Design contest" asking users to illustrate Obama deciding to go shopping rather than meet the troops.
When in fact the Pentagon
initially cleared the visit and then at the last minute expressed concern that it was a campaign event, leading Obama to cancel.
At dKos they are speculating that the whole thing was set up as a deliberate operation to make the Obama campaign look bad. One doesn't have to embrace that probably strained conclusion to recognize that Redstate is making a fool of itself pushing this as a story.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
So Obama's an American?
This sounds familiar... do you remember the first day of the war
? (links to music)
"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas
Ugh
Defiance, Ohio? Talk about the most pretentious indie band in the history of pretentious indie bands.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
too preach? bad singing?
What's pretentious about them?
I'm surprized anyone has heard of them.
"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas
Don't get me started
The indie scene likes to pretend it isn't, but it's still a scene. I know a good deal many people who like to think they're unique and/or different because they listen to underground "non-corporate" music.
It's just another way for people to try and differentiate themselves from the rest of a particular counterculture. The people who subject themselves to the unlistenable dreck that is Defiance, Ohio don't care what the music even sounds like. They just want to associate themselves with the crowd that listens to Defiance, Ohio. They're "anarchists" or "post-leftists". These are the people who say with that touch of condescension that "they don't listen to the radio".
Truth-in-advertising:
I don't listen much to the radio because I don't like most contemporary popular music and because the radio selections in Sandusky, Ohio aren't exactly plentiful. However, when I do happen to hear a good tune on the radio, I'm not about to pretend I don't like it so I can keep up appearances.
I'll give Defiance, Ohio credit for releasing their music under a reasonable copyright license, but then again, I don't even know if the sound files they put out counts as "music". I'd tend to classify it as performance art because their music isn't even most of what they are about.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
indie music; lack of popularity, diversity, politics
My impression is that most of the "indie" scene is driven by the simple fact that the bands don't perform a style of music that is likely to reach a mass audience, or they just haven't developed their skills to the point that they deserve a mass audience. As such, they are struggling to get gigs and distributors, so they exist out in the limbo that is indie music...dealing with producers and venues that will try to squeeze a dime from a small audience. Occasionally they make the transition to popular or semi-popular audiences.
From an "ideological" perspective, I think the indie movement is mainly driven by the idea that the production of a wide variety of music is good for systemic reasons, rather than being based on the average quality of the music produced. Personally, I don't listen to a whole lot of commercial radio just because their song selection tends to be very narrow and I end up hearing the same things over and over again. I also get tired of the commercials.
As for the politics (anarchism in this case), I have to admit that I discovered Defiance Ohio specifically because I was looking for anarchist music. It also helped that I didn't have to pay to hear their stuff (I appreciate their music, but I'm not a fanatic). I like their folk/punk fusion, and haven't discovered another band with a similar style--so I'm rooting for them to succeed and improve their skills. Speaking of that, I've noticed that their performance improves with each album, and they are moving away from lyrics that are specifically targeted at an audience of anarchists. I can't blame them for making that music in the past--that was probably their original audience, so they made music that was appropriate for them. My guess is that they are probably getting more serious about the band now, and trying to reach a broader audience.
Maybe some of the schmucks in that scene will accuse DO of "selling out" if they make more popular music, but that's not DOs fault. Apparently Chumbawamba faced similar criticism when they produced Tubthumping as a popular album.
I don't see any reason that a band needs to be judged by their fans, nor why there needs to be a problem with trying to express serious (or even radical) ideas. Of course, a song is not a place to develop complicated arguments, but it can be a place to remind people of what they believe, or to emphasize particular values. If you don't share their values, then the music probably won't have much value for you--but that just means that they weren't talking to you.
To get back to the song that I linked to, I think its message speaks to the large number of Americans (from various political/social perspectives) who have been bothered by how little investment most Americans have made in this war. The song then proceeds to admit to how easy it to ignore these types of problems, and how easy it is to get sucked into consumerism, then encourages us to stay invested in these big issues. I think it speaks to Christians just as much as it does to anarchists.
"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas
Meet some
I think stinerman was referring to DO's fan base being in an indie scene just for the sake of being in that scene and DO catering to that fan base.
On the very second day of the war Defiance, Ohio was writing a song about how they could make money off people shopping in Columbus. but the song is free you say. [but the fan base would download it free anyways and then go to the show]
Defiance, Ohio sounds somewhat like The Decemberist
or Harvey Danger with some female backing vocals.
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
thanks for the music suggestions
I can see the similarities between the Decemberists and DO (but the Decemberists are better performers, of course). One of the differences seems to be that DO places a heavier emphasis on instruments more traditionally associated with folk music--like violins and upright bass. Also, several DO songs feature the female vocalist(s) in the lead. She's actually the better singer in the group.
As for the fan base, I've never been to a show. I wonder if their national fan base is similar to their hometown fan base. Stinerman seems to be in teh same neighborhood as this band (based in Columbu, Ohio).
Finally, I have no doubt that songwriters are hoping that their songs will win them recognition (and status/money). I don't see anything wrong (or non-anarchist) about that.
"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas
The sullen sound of Indie strings.
It just strikes me as funny that D,O would have a song [to eventually make money off of] about people being oblivious and shopping when their country is at war.
Cursive -- The Recluse

Murder By Death -- Until Morale Improves, The Beatings Will Continue
Male/female vocals seems to be popular at smaller labels

The Hush Sound -- Wine Red
Straylight Run - Hands In The Sky (Big Shot)
And D,O's frontman, at times, sounds like Harvey Danger's frontman. And Harvey Danger
had one slower song with strings.
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
thanks for the music
I get the impression that you feel sorry for me...not knowing anything better than D,O.
"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas
D,O sounds like Decemberist demos...
Too bad you didn't know I like Rage Against the Machine and that Harvey Danger's most popular song has lyrics that goes: "I wanna publish 'zines and rage against machines..."
FYI: RATM was on a major label [which is part of the machine] but my comment about D,O making money off of the war still stands.
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
production vs. consumption
I don't see any contradiction between them criticizing wartime consumerism even if they make money/status from writing songs about it. The classic behavior of popular war is for the citizenry to reduce consumption and increase production (WWII being the prime example). Since D,O has decided to make a living from making music, the way for them to "contribute" (i.e. be productive) is to write songs.
So what if they make money off of it? Everyone needs money to live, and even if this is excess money for them, they still have the opportunity to invest this wealth rather than spend it on something frivolous.
"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas
What he said
The general tone was much of what Brutus said. Too many people who like Defiance, Ohio like them not because of their music, but because liking them is a sort of status symbol that gets their fans access to a particular counterculture.
To me, Defiance, Ohio represents the worst of that culture.
It's much in the same vein as the people who buy vinyl records. It's a style and a way of showing you're in a particular group rather than based on the inherent properties of vinyl as a medium.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
Defiance Ohio and their culture
I guess I wasn't aware that they had a serious fan base.
Anyway, since they seem to be (have been) self-consciously anarchist, I wouldn't be surprized if they expected their audience to form a community that is about more than just the band. I got the impression that they considered their band to be just one institution within the anarchist counterculture.
I know that anarchism does attract a whole lot of teenage posers, but I don't think their lyrics play up on that. For example, in their studio albums they don't yell "Anarchy!!!" (like the Sex Pistols did), nor do they insert gratuitous curses (like Metallica started doing after they made it big). Their lyrics often show some depth of thought about what it means to live as an anarchist.
They even call out the posers in a song about skateboarding: "I try not to think that it's only fashion, or the teenaged boys are patriarchy in action" Of course, everyone will think "it's the other guy".
"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas
Sadly, Josh Trevino's new post, The Berlin Missionary
which can be viewed here
is less well thought out than he is capable of. He tries to say that Barack's speech yesterday in Berlin "is that it was very much in the rhetorical tradition of one George W. Bush" and vindicates dubya's policies and actions during his presidency.
Frankly, I've seen a bunch of this lately. I suspect we'll all see a whole bunch more till election day because the folks that support conservatives and republicans have nothing but skanky lemons this year. They are doing what they feel they must by trying to make lemonaide out of it. But it's still just skanky lemonaide. Maybe it's the new Kool-Aide favorite of the right....whatever.
I've made the point myself
that GWB's rhetoric is in the tradition of classical liberals like JFK.
The execution of GWB's (claimed) policies has been, however, almost unfailingly incompetent, inconsistent, and damaging.
Whether one views that as a consequence of this crop of conservatives being incapable of (and disinterested in) governing productively, or as a consequence of GWB expressing non-conservative ideals that were always impossible to achieve, probably depends on one's political affiliation.
Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson
article on genetics and racism
The ethics of characterizing difference: guiding
principles on using racial categories in human genetics
This is an interesting summary of the relationship between genetics and racism. It's written by a bunch of geneticists who are trying to define guidelines for doing research on human population genetics.
"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas
The time has come. To say fairs fair.
A facts a fact
It belongs to them
Lets give it back
First Aboriginal remains to be returned from U.S.
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
New York game law...angers civil liberties groups
If only Al Capone was protected from playing violent video games...
Next up in New York's state legislature, book burning.
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
Many have already tried and failed
Government ratings systems for media has been struck down as unconstitutional several times already. I believe Illinois and Louisiana have both tried this same approach.
Movies and music are not government regulated. "Parental advisory" stickers and the G/PG/PG-13/R ratings are imposed by the RIAA and MPAA, respectively, and no criminal penalties exist for retailers that ignore them. Similarly the ESRB rates games. Again, no criminal penalties exist for retaliers that ignore the ESRB recommendations.
When laws like this are prima facie unconstitutional, the state should be fined for wasting the court's time.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
video game cartel?
Since I'm neurotically looking government-backed cartels, this item caught my attention. It looks like a pointless barrier to market entry to me. Now a new competitor can't even get a foot in the market before they are required to design a full-featured product. To top it off, this is pointless from the perspective of social/market engineering, since this feature is already standard on the mass-market products.
"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas
NY disses psychology departments
Isn't this what we have psychologists for? IIRC, there is already substantial interest in this issue, and substantial funding for research. What does NY think that they can add to this?
"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas
Putting my money where
my mouth is, I will be doing my least favorite act of civic participation duty today, beating the streets and knocking on doors. blecch :(
I don't enjoy it, but it's my sacrifice for the nation. :)
Why do Republicans call Democrats socialists and why is the conventional wisdom that Democrats are Always better for the economy????
A little mix is good...... capitalism's rough edges softened with a little help on making those boot straps easier to reach.
It is the economy, stupid.
I don't knock on doors
It's incredibly rude. I wouldn't even knock on doors for my own campaign, much less someone else's. I would be happy to use our wonderful postal service to let people know I exist and where to find more information about me if they wished to do so.
I don't want people bothering me at home, so I assume everyone else doesn't want people bothering them at home. It must be a cultural/family thing. I couldn't imagine going up to anyone I don't know and attempting to have a conversation with them.
That being said, I'm glad people do it because being rude is the difference between President Obama and President McCain.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
in public places
I've circulated petitions in public places, and even there it as hard to overcome my resistance to disturbing people. Fortunately, at concerts and such (before the show), people are typically milling around without much to do.
"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas
I'd have a problem doing that
I have a natural aversion to bothering people I don't know.
I'd put up a tent, a table, and a sign that says "Sign my petition". That's as far as I'd go.
The interesting thing is that I'd sign any petition to get any candidate on the ballot as well as to get any issue on the ballot, regardless of my views on the ballot initiative or candidate.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
many people will sign to get anyone on the ballot
When I was circulating petitions for Libertarian candidates, many people signed on the basis that "we need more options on the ballot".
Some people refused to sign on the basis "this will reduce my favorite candidate's chance of winning."
One guy decided to start a loud public argument with me about the fallacies of liberterianism. A few other people asked me to clarify the libertarian position on a few issues before refusing to sign.
Overall, it was a positive experience and no-one really seemed bothered by the fact that I approached them.
"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas
Nader had a difficult time
Many Democrats and liberals either refused to sign a Nader petition or signed using false or made-up names/addresses. Nader turned in 15,000 signatures in 2004 and less than 5,000 of them were deemed valid. Obviously some sloppiness can be expected from the petitioners, but not that much.
It's one thing to not sign a ballot petition, it's quite another to write in false information in the hopes of keeping a candidate off the ballot. If I had my way, knowingly signing a false name on a ballot petition would be a crime. But then, I have no idea how to enforce such a law.
I never broke the law; I am the law! --
George W. BushJudge DreddI'm listening to...
lust for power...
That's really sleazy.
Looking for evidence...
Nader Sues Democratic National Committee for 2004 Dirty Tricks
Aside from the accusations from the Nader campaign, I didn't find any mention of this behavior. Wikipedia didn't mention it, and there was no discussion of it on a few articles that I looked at on pro-Democrat websites (DailyKos, BlueOregon). However, there was also accusations that Nader's petition gatherers were subject to verbal abuse. Some people on Daily Kos mentioned that they had "interfered" with petition gathering by engaging the gatherers in proloned conversation/debate before refusing to sign the petition.
It's sad if the lust for power even corrupts those who will never get within 100 miles of it.
"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas
psychology: asking others for help
Here's a semi-related post from the PsyBlog.
Ask For Help: Why People Are Twice as Likely to Assist as You Think
Of course, with petitions you aren't exactly asking for help.
"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas
Tax Rate for the Wealthy Drops to Lowest Level in 18 years.
In this morning's paper, they printed an article by Jess Drucker of the WSJ titled "Richest Americans See Their Income Share Grow
". In it figures for 2006 reveal that:
"In a new sign of increasing inequality in the U.S., the richest 1% of Americans in 2006 garnered the highest share of the nation's adjusted gross income for two decades, and possibly the highest since 1929, according to Internal Revenue Service data. Meanwhile, the average tax rate of the wealthiest 1% fell to its lowest level in at least 18 years. The group's share of the tax burden has risen, though not as quickly as its share of income. According to the figures, the richest 1% reported 22% of the nation's total adjusted gross income in 2006. That is up from 21.2% a year earlier, and is the highest in the 19 years that the IRS has kept strictly comparable figures. The 1988 level was 15.2%. Earlier IRS data show the last year the share of income belonging to the top 1% was at such a high level as it was in 2006 was in 1929, but changes in measuring income make a precise comparison difficult.
The average tax rate in 2006 for the top 1%, based on adjusted gross income, was 22.8%, down slightly from 2005 and the fifth straight year of declines. The average tax rate of this group was 28.9% in 1996, and was 24% in 1988.
As the wealthiest Americans' share of income has risen, so has their share of the income-tax burden. The group paid 39.9% of all income taxes in 2006, compared with 27.6% in 1988. In the most recently reported five years, however, the share of income reported by the very wealthy has risen faster than the group's share of income taxes."
The rich are indeed getting richer, and John McCain proposes to give them even more and make those changes permanent. Clue to anyone reading this...Guess who get's to pay a larger percentage of their income towards running the Federal Government so the rich can get out of paying theirs? Yup...you and me.
"income-tax burden" only
"income-tax burden" only includes direct "Income"
"Federal Tax Burden" includes the payroll taxes that companies pay, and attaches that to the workers the taxes came from.
When one incorporates the poverty level and takes out the income one earns, the top 1% make out like bandits in their % of Federal Tax Burden compared to those just above the poverty level.
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
"incorporates the poverty level"
I don't follow what you're saying there. Do you mean that if we just look at disposable income (total income - the amount needed to stay out of poverty), then the wealthy have a very low tax rate?
If that is what you are saying, then for most Americans, shouldn't the "poverty level" be accounted for by the standard deduction?
"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas
Disposable/Discretionary income
I was referring to Discretionary Income
More or less the "poverty level" should be a deduction and then tax brackets would need to be changed, those in the know could easily skew the stats anyways to make appear the "elites" are getting hosed.
In our society, people are rewarded for pretending to be certain about things they're clearly not certain about. -- Sam Harris,
when will Affirmative Action end?
McCain has come out
in favor of an Arizona referendum
against Affirmative Action; Obama challenged him for flip-flopping on this issue, but recognized that AA is not a long-term solution
.
Andrew Sullivan
has some sensible words on this issue, claiming that Obama could have won big points by emphasizing the need to replace race-based affirmative action with a more liberal system--focusing on individual opportunity rather than social engineering.
Not only for the fall, but for the next generation of Americans.
"You have seen how a man was made a slave; you shall see how a slave was made a man." --Frederick Douglas