Thursday Open Thread

Of interest: Redstate editors try to figure out how they ended up with McCain. On the other side, Obama raised $7 million since after the Feb 5th primaries.
What's happening today?

Hey, I just noticed that I can edit other people's diaries and front page stories, what's up? -- GoRight Sigh... dunno, Ender will have to look into it. Stinerman said he can too. --Brendan

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Warren Buffet Sings Poetic Justice

Bank Woes are Poetic Justice

Dumb Money

"It's sort of a little poetic justice, in that the people that brewed this toxic Kool-Aid found themselves drinking a lot of it in the end," he said.

"I wouldn't quite call it a credit crunch. Funds are available," Buffett said during a question and answer session at a business event. "Money is available, and it's really quite cheap because of the lowering of rates that has taken place."

He added: "What has happened is a repricing of risk and an unavailability of what I might call 'dumb money,' of which there was plenty around a year ago."

Dumb money being high risk derivatives spread everywhere trotted out as liquidity for large capital investments, that has suddenly dried up because bond insurers refuse to insure these highly leveraged speculative pools of high risk funds

…………

I don't understand how similar risk mortgages

aren't grouped together, rated and sold as a like group. It seems to me that by packaging multiple different levels of mortgages together has torpedoed all of them because of the associated risk.

Why is Wall Street insisting on continuing to try to package and sell stuff that previous buyers have been taken to the cleaners for, and now no one will buy because of what the pile's risks are that are not properly labeled.

………… parent

They are reassessing

their risk strategies!

There is a big wig conferance trying to figure out the best way to regulate this situation, without stifling incentive.

But that still doesn't negate the serious problems that some owners are facing.

What is interesting is the glut of unsold houses.

No one wants to buy a home right now, because they think the value will drop.

I would love love love to see homes become more affordable. It would be a huge boost to American morale, and to the economy over-all.

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I feel bad for some of my friends who refinanced

at the market peak, but I have no sympathy for the speculators. The speculators are the ones who drove the market to artificially high prices. I honestly would like to see them get their credit ratings screwed.

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White House refuses 85 nomination approvals because

the Senate won't allow them to recess appoint author of Illegal Wiretap & torture memo .

Let's see, in negotiations with the White House in December, Reid said they would approve 85 nominations to various posts but the White House said they won't agree until the Senate approve Steven Bradbury as head of the Office of Legal Counsel, the crucial Justice Department office that has the power to issue "advance pardons". The Senate has said no 4 times so far. The White House says no one till Bradbury.

And apparently today the White House (calling Karl Rove) will be getting on a soap box and claiming it's the Senate who is holding up these 85 nominations.

Who is being partisan & who is being decietful here? That's my only problem with Obama's speil. It isn't Democrats who monkey wrenching the works of government. It's Republicans. Starting out with a "bi-partisan" approach to these bastards will only get Democrats screwed multiple more times. I mean, I'm already sick of Reid & Pelosi trying to go along to get along, and for what? So they can be made to be Poster Children of a Karl Rove media event?

Fight them. Fight them with everything you've got. That's how you "negotiate" with the current Republican leadership.

…………

The Democrats.

Who is being partisan & who is being decietful here?

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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Let's see how John Q Public takes it....

Congress has a right to say some candidates don't rate getting their appointmed positions.

Here we have an Executive Branch that's willing to sh-tcan 85 appointments to get one that has been rejected by both parties 4 times already, not just democrats.

Bush43 is treating it like a giant game of chicken. They're doing the same thing with the FISA stuff, stringing that out till just before the deadline to try and get everything they want.

I don't fault them for wanting to get as much as they can in negotiations. I fault them for being spoiled rotten kids in negotiations.

………… parent

:)

I don't think John Q public cares much.  I agree that this is unfortunate.

I don't fault them for wanting to get as much as they can in
negotiations. I fault them for being spoiled rotten kids in
negotiations.

While I can understand your frustration, I don't happen to share it.  This is just the way this appointment game is played.  I am sure I can find equally bogus tactics used by the democrats at various times in the past.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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What does that have to do with it?

I am sure I can find equally bogus tactics used by the democrats at various times in the past.

Don't Republicans hold themselves to higher standards?

Newsflash: both parties use questionable tactics to gain or hold on to power. That is why I support neither.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

………… parent

My friend is France emailed last night about McCain

He says the French are 90% certain that McCain will win. Mind you, the French election experts also stated Bush would win in 2004 even when it seemed unlikely over here.

I dunno. He bet me Bush would win in 2004 (even though he didn't want him to) and he was right.

oh la la....

…………

I thought it was ...

ooo la la ...

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

………… parent

Actually no

it's Oh la la.

The "OOO" is an Americanization.

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I stand corrected ...

actually I am sort of gratitified that I didn't know this little Frenchie tidbit ...

(no offense to your French friend) 

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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And if you want to be really technical,

it's "oh là là"

Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

………… parent

They're 90% certain

based on a gut feeling, or is there some deeper explanation there? :)

2004 was easy - Ze Amerikans ahr the doombest peepohl on ze pla'net - so zey weell voht foh ze dumbs*eet again.

What is it now? Racist vote?

Sic semper tyrannis

………… parent

Um..ahem...

Both the 2000 and the 2004 Presidential elections were not won fair and square...they were stolen. The French predicted that the American electorate at large would be stupid enough to let that happen, both times...and it did. The United States became a laughing-stock for the rest of the world, and the French, especially, laughed their heads off at the United States.

………… parent

I can't confirm 2004

I worked as a recount observer in 2004. I can say without a doubt that the ballots that were cast were counted properly in the counties I observed (Greene, Clark, Shelby).

Blackwell's corrupt tactics of putting more polling stations in Republican precincts and using every trick in the book to depress the minority and student vote might have been enough to swing Ohio to Bush. Having a partisan oversee the vote counting is what happens in banana republics. We can do better.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

………… parent

Good on you stinerman

for stepping up to the observation plate.

I am impressed with your willingness to participate, and your good common sense on policy!

(Hope the new job is working out okay so far.)

………… parent

No-brainer

At the time I was on break between quarters at college, so it was a no-brainer. Most everyone who was there with me were just partisan Democrats who didn't really care much about the integrity of the vote, but more about overturning results.

At the training I recall a woman asking our trainer point-blank what we had to do to get Kerry elected. He was a Kerry supporter, but he wanted Kerry to win by the ballots, not by coup.

Partisanship = bad.

The job is ... a job. It'll have to do. Thanks for asking.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

………… parent

Where can I make a contribution?

To the Obama campaign?  :)

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

…………

Go......

here

Warning: I recommend putting on your sunglasses first since your eyes are acclimated to living on the dark side. The light might seem unduly bright.

………… parent

More Naomi Klein Stuff

…………

Romney preparing to drop out?

Rumor says they are considering whether there is a "path to victory" and how to withdraw gracefully.

He speaks at CPAC today, which should clear things up.

If he drops and Huckabee stays, is there a chance the race might not be over? Would enough of Romney's support go to Huckabee, even if chiefly to oppose McCain?

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

…………

CNN confirms Romney to suspend campaign

Says he will announce at CPAC today, based on campaign sources.

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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Now we get to see

if Huckabee drops out to get the Veep slot or if McCain shanks him (or I suppose if he tries to shank McCain).

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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What a classless speech

Mitt says he's dropping out so the terrorists won't win. What a pompous lying sack of excrement. I'm just sorry he didn't win the nomination because we'd beat him like an ugly dog in November.

I guess this means two things:

1. Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul are terrorist sympathizers because they stay in the race.
2. Mitt's military-age sons are now free to join the fight that Mitt says is so important he has to suspend his campaign for it.

qui tacet consentire

………… parent

Classless, but impressive.

Who'd have thought someone could tie in terrorism in a more ludicrous way than Giuliani? Mitt gets a gold star!

Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

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F7 stop Hillbama day a rousing success, or not.

Rightroots has declared today, feb 7th to be "F7 the day to stop Hillary" or "F7 the day to stop Obama" (the banner alternates). Said banner is displayed prominently at the top of Redstate's main page. COnveninetly, for mocking purposes, the banner includes a running total.

So far? 9 donors. $735 dollars.

Yeah. I'll keep an eye on the total.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

…………

Liberals can counter that by donating 2 cents via paypal,

paypal will still charge them 50 cents for the transaction.

………… parent

Do they accept Iraqi dinars?

qui tacet consentire

………… parent

LOL.

I forgot about betoniraq.com

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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I don't think that really works. -nt.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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Well, I'm campaigning for Obama now! :)

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19 donors. *Almost* two grand! -nt.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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They're melting down over there,

although in a smaller and less visually impressive way than dkos. GBCWs and indignation!

It's primary fever: you shift your focus from your opponents to yourselves, and you find your own party seriously wanting. Without a unified target (the guy or gal on the other side of the aisle) you start devouring each other instead. Their front page post trying to make the best of a McCain candidacy won't look too different than the front page of dkos if Clinton wins the nomination. Albeit with a lot more users.

Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

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28 donors. Not quite $2500.

Obama and Hillary must be srsly afeared.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

By way of comparison

in 2007, an off political year, ActBlue (which is what Rightroots is supposed to be for the right) took in an average $46,000 a day. Meanwhile in a special money bomb the Rightroots hasn't broken 3 grand.

ActBlue averaged 463 contributors a day in 2007. Rightroots can't get 50.

I'm beginning to see why the right has been *&^%ing themselves about the left's monopoly of the net.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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Hmmm, in rough numbers I guess this must mean ...

that left-wing dupes are 16 times as numerous and 11% more stupid than their right-wing counterparts.  That is scary, but it also seems roughly accurate at the same time.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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Dupes

Did you just imply that Rightroots are a bunch of swindlers? How candid of you!

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

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And ActBlue too!

But to be fair, it is more like pouring your money down the drain than being swindled.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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That how

putting money where their mouths are look to you? I guess you don't take desperation into account. Once the Dems entrench themselves and start oppressing the right wingers again with their political correctness, feminazism, gay rights, etc. the trend might reverse.

Sic semper tyrannis

………… parent

That's your best?

F7: One Day to Stop Hillary (and Obama) is a grassroots campaign by Rightroots to mobilize thousands of Republican donors to contribute to our party’s nominee on Thursday, February 7, 2008.

"Thousands," huh?

Yeah. As of 6PM Pacific time your grand total of 28 contributors falls just 1972 people sort of "thousands."

No matter what happens, I'm urging all of my readers to participate in F7: One Day to Stop Hillary (and Obama). It's a plan to give our nominee a cash infusion to hit the ground running from the start.

I guess we know how many readers this guy can boast of.

GOP online whiz Patrick Ruffini is working with Rightroots to address what they perceive as a critical weakness in the Republican presidential campaign: the lack of cash on hand. Whether Mitt Romney or John McCain wins the nomination (or even if it's Mike Huckabee), the candidate will be essentially broke. That's why they've come together to create February7.org.

The point of the effort is to raise as much money as possible in one day, with all of it to go to the candidate who seizes control of the nomination on Super Duper Tuesday. If it's unclear who the nominee will be, then the site will continue to collect pledges until the race sorts itself out.

Patrick Ruffini's "whiz"-hood appears questionable. Was this really "as much money as possible in one day"? Why don't the dems nominate Kucinich?

I could keep going, but I think you get the picture. This was their best online effort and it sank like a rock. It showed up on over 3000 google hits, which means it almost made $1 for each rightard who talked about it. Way to advertise how lame and crippled you are, guys.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

An as we near the end...

32 donors, $2646. It's almost 10pm here on the west coast. meaning feb 7th has come and gone on the east coast.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

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Saudi Cops Grab U.S. Woman In Starbucks

Is the healine. The article says:

"The 37-year-old businesswoman works for a finance company in Riyadh. Her problem began when her office lost electricity. She and her male colleagues then went to a nearby Starbucks to use the coffee shop's Internet connection.

She sat with a male colleague in the Starbucks' family area, the only place women are allowed to sit with men.

“Some men came up to us with very long beards and white dresses. They asked 'Why are you here together?' I explained about the power being out in our office. They got very angry and told me what I was doing was a great sin,” she told the Times.

Following her arrest and interrogation, the woman was hauled before a judge.

“He said 'You are sinful and you are going to burn in hell.'

And these are the US's primary agents in the moslem world? These are our "friends"? Let's not forget that it was the Saudi's who were responsible for 9/11 and it is the Saudi's that are bankrolling the Madrasses & Talibahn in Pakistan & Afghanistan.

Maybe we need some different freinds. Saddam's Iraq wouldn't have bothered the woman, but I can't say that bush43's Iraq wouldn't. What have we done to ourselves?

…………

Screw the Saudis

One of the most repressive regimes on the planet.

If they put this woman on trial we should recall our ambassador and expel theirs.

qui tacet consentire

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Why?

This was a non-citizen arrested for no good reason. The government can do the same thing in this country. We don't even have to put them on trial!

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

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In that respect I guess we can be glad they didn't send her

off to Guantanamo Bay, the Resort for those who don't qualify for judges.....

(Treasure of the Sierra Madre moment:) Judges? Judges!!! We Don't Need No Stinking Judges!!!!

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Wow

the Saudis are so kind and forgiving.
They could have stoned her to death, cut her head off, put it on a spike at the market and feed the corps to the dogs - and they didn't!
You've got a problem with it, damn infidels?

Sic semper tyrannis

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Who does the Health Care industry support with their dollars....

…………

Who are the idiots

Who donated to Gravel and Keyes?

qui tacet consentire

………… parent

cheap idiots.

The return for the Romney donations just went into the toilet.

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What does this mean?

If my niece, a registered nurse, donates 5 bucks to Dennis Kucinich, is that money coming from "the Health Care industry?"

If yes, this chart is meaningless. If no, then what qualifies and what doesn't?

We are the environment. There is no distinction. What we do to the earth we do to ourselves. —David Suzuki

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PACs and individuals giving > $200....

METHODOLOGY: The totals on these charts are calculated from PAC contributions and contributions from individuals giving more than $200, as reported to the Federal Election Commission. Individual contributions are generally categorized based on the donor's occupation/employer, although individuals may be classified instead as ideological donors if they've given more than $200 to an ideological PAC.

 

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/sectors.asp?sec=H

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Probably a bigger surprise is insurance...

Total to these candidates: $73,738,640 (Dems 53.3% and Repubs 46.7%)

Finance/Insur/RealEst

Clinton, Hillary

graph $15,131,604

Giuliani, Rudy

graph $12,887,495

Romney, Mitt

graph $11,686,852

Obama, Barack

graph $11,591,196

McCain, John

graph $6,045,302

Dodd, Chris

graph $5,670,867

Richardson, Bill

graph $2,970,746

Edwards, John

graph $2,277,017

Thompson, Fred

graph $1,644,317

Biden, Joe

graph $1,450,384

Paul, Ron

graph $948,009

Huckabee, Mike

graph $653,748

Brownback, Sam

graph $242,871

Vilsack, Tom

graph $160,250

Thompson, Tommy

graph $116,919

Hunter, Duncan

graph $95,945

Tancredo, Tom

graph $54,330

Gilmore, Jim

graph $52,300

Kucinich, Dennis

graph $50,012

Gravel, Mike

graph $7,475

Keyes, Alan

graph $1,001

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nevermind, you answered.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

………… parent

Cheney at CPAC: You're damned right I'd attack Iraq again!

The President has made the right decisions for the right reasons and he always reflected the values of the American people," Cheney declared, "Would I support those same decisions today? You're damn right I would."

I'm more or less a non-violent guy....but with each day of this Adminstrations receeding term, I'm thinking how lucky I am that I'm not around these idiots while armed.

No, I don't want to kill anyone, including our Vice Fuhrer, but even more so, I don't want to live out the rest of my life in prison.

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And I'd support them all over again too! :)

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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Why? Why would you attack Iraq again?

Those troops and those dollars could have been used much better in Afghanistan. Now when we need them (in the place that actually DID attack us) we don't have the manpower, we don't have the money, we don't have the support of the rest of the world.

Honestly, the 4,000 dead GI's from Iraq so Darth could throw Halliburton into a new oil patch is the most ludicrice and abominable thing yet. Blood for Oil Dick and his lap puppet dubya.

And why? Because Iraq is more target rich Rummy said. So I ask you GoRight, knowing what we do now about Saddam not being part of 9/11, not having any WMD, not threatening us as a nation, how could you justify attacking and occupying Iraq? It's only been Osama's best recruitment tool ever.

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All the same reasons...nothing has changed.

Saddam not being part of 9/11

Nobody ever said he was. That's liberal lies.

not having any WMD

We know he had WMD. UNMOVIC said so and he never accounted for what happened to them. They are still out there for all we know.

not threatening us as a nation

The WMDs were and remain a threat to us if they fall into the hands of terrorists. The Iraq war has made that less likely.

It's only been Osama's best recruitment tool ever.

As well as the overwhelming death sentence for thousands upon thousands of terrorists. The flypaper worked.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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Buddy, put the crack pipe down. It ain't helping you.

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Must we?

It's not much of a counterargument even to a ridiculously wrong post...

Come, my friends. 'Tis not too late to seek a newer world -- Tennyson

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Not crack

It's confirmation bias and good, healthy cognitive dissonance. Thank Darwin or YHWH that it exists.

All partisans engage in it. Some more than others.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

………… parent

Cognitive dissonance?

Which part of what I stated is untrue and why?

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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All of it

All of it, and I can't convince you of why.

My roommate is more of a threat to me than Osama bin Laden as the former could steal my stuff. Bin Laden might end up planning a mission that might kill my friend's 3rd cousin's stepsister's grandma's dog's first owner.

Don't be afraid GR; that is what they're banking on. Fear is much more their tool than RPGs or suicide vests.

I never broke the law; I am the law! -- George W. Bush Judge Dredd
I'm listening to...

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I'm not afraid.

The difference between us, apparantly, is that I care what happens to your "friend's 3rd cousin's stepsister's grandma's dog's first owner" whereas you, again apparantly based on this statement, do not.

All of it, and I can't convince you of why.

This, of course, is a total cop out.  Take my points one by one and make your case for how they are untrue.  Whether I am convinced by your argument or not is irrelevant.  At least back up your statement with something.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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schizophrenia

Somewhat reasonable on (most) domestic policy, SO wacky on foreign policy.

Ah, conservatism.

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I sort of like when we boil things down to these one liners.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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no offense ;)

But if I were prez and there were a spot for you in my cabinet, it wouldnt be sec. of state or defense....

=}

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LOL, fair enough. :)

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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bunk

"Nobody ever said he was. That's liberal lies."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10164478

Long-alleged connection
After Sept. 11, the administration insisted that a connection existed between Iraq and al-Qaida. President Bush, in an October 2002 speech in Cincinnati, said the United States had “learned that Iraq has trained al-Qaida members in bomb-making and poisons and gas.”

And Vice President Cheney, in a September 2003 appearance on NBC's “Meet the Press,” alleged there was “a relationship between Iraq and al-Qaida that stretched back through most of the decade of the ’90s.”

Sic semper tyrannis

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We've been over this a bazzilion times.

Saying that Iraq had a relationaship with Al Qaeda is not the same thing as saying the Iraq was "part of" the attacks on 9/11.  Find me an actual quote where Bush or Cheney, in their own words, claimed that Iraq was part of (i.e. participated in the planning or execution of) the 9/11 attacks and I'll admit you are right.  Otherwise trying to twist these statements into being a statement that Iraq attacked us on 9/11 is just a lie.

I have posted on many occasions direct quotes from Bush where he explicitly denies that Iraq was part of the 9/11 attacks.  I have yet to have a direct quote presented from your side where he states the opposite. 

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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I really wanted to stay out of this

but I was just wondering if you are aware of this study ?

Study: "False Pretenses" Led U.S. To War
Journalism Groups' Research Finds 935 False Statements By Bush Administration

WASHINGTON, Jan. 23, 2008
AP) A study by two nonprofit journalism organizations found that President Bush and top administration officials issued hundreds of false statements about the national security threat from Iraq in the two years following the 2001 terrorist attacks.

The study concluded that the statements "were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses."

The study was posted Tuesday on the Web site of the Center for Public Integrity, which worked with the Fund for Independence in Journalism.
. . .
The study counted 935 false statements in the two-year period. It found that in speeches, briefings, interviews and other venues, Mr. Bush and administration officials stated unequivocally on at least 532 occasions that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or was trying to produce or obtain them or had links to al Qaeda or both.

"It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess any weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful ties to al Qaeda," according to Charles Lewis and Mark Reading-Smith of the Fund for Independence in Journalism staff members, writing an overview of the study. "In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003."

What you have is speculation and spin, while we are dealing with what we actually know to be the truth as it stands right now.

So, should I believe an independent group that investigated the matter which found Bush and Co. lied almost a thousand times or partisan GoRight (aka GhostOfGoRight)? Hmm, let me think . . .

We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
http://signicide.blogspot.com/

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What I see when I read this ...

A study by two nonprofit journalism liberal organizations found that ...

The rest is completely predictable.

... President Bush and top administration officials issued hundreds of false true to the best of their knowledge at the time statements about the national security threat from Iraq in the two years following the 2001 terrorist attacks.

The study liberal propagandists concluded that the statements "were part of an orchestrated campaign that effectively galvanized public opinion and, in the process, led the nation to war under decidedly false pretenses."

The study liberal propoganda was posted Tuesday on the Web site of the Center for Public Integrity, which worked with the Fund for Independence in Journalism their websites.
. . .
The study counted 935 false true to the best of their knowledge at the time statements in the two-year period. It found that in speeches, briefings, interviews and other venues, Mr. Bush and administration officials stated unequivocally on at least 532 occasions that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or was trying to produce or obtain them or had links to al Qaeda or both.

Iraq had weapons of mass destruction? True according to UNMOVIC and the historical record of Saddam's using them on the Kurds. Iraq was trying to produce or obtain them? True. The Brits still stand by their report that Iraq was seeking Uranium. Iraq had links to al Qaeda? True as documented in the 9/11 commission report.

"It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess any weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful ties to al Qaeda," according to Charles Lewis and Mark Reading-Smith of the Fund for Independence in Journalism staff members the liberal propagandists, writing an overview of the study liberal propoganda. "In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous true to the best of their knowledge at the time information that it methodically propagated warned the nation about and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003."

Here is how that last quote should read:

"It is now beyond dispute that Iraq did not possess unclear what happened to any the weapons of mass destruction or have meaningful why liberals continue to deny ties to al Qaeda," according to Charles Lewis and Mark Reading-Smith of the Fund for Independence in Journalism staff members any intellectually honest observers, writing an overview of the study truth. "In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous true to the best of their knowledge at the time information that it methodically propagated warned the nation and that culminated in military action against Iraq on March 19, 2003."

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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I knew when

I presented this study that you would blame it on the liberal media (though anyone can see it is by an independent organization) since it was not produced nor endorsed by the only arbiter of truth in the world, Rush Limbaugh .

So, when Limbaugh flip-flops and endorses/accepts McCain, is that the signal that its OK for you to vote for him? I'll be watching for the signal.

We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
http://signicide.blogspot.com/

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Look, I don't want to fight over this.

We have covered this ground already. We know were we each stand. At this point I am simply responding with my standard talking points when I see the liberal talking points being espoused. It isn't personal. It isn't even fun anymore.

And for the record, I don't dispute their statistics. I have no doubt that Bush and Cheney said what they said as many times as these people say they did. What I do dispute is their interpretation and spin on the meaning of the statements that were actually made. That is the crux of the issue as it has always been.

As for Rush Limbaugh, how I vote is my decision not his. I decide for myself. I won't be voting for McCain or Hillary as I have stated. I will vote Obama if he is the delegate from the left just to help keep McCain out. Otherwise I choose to help the libertarians which is the party that I would otherwise prefer anyway, but who remain unviable as a third party. If the Republican party fractures I suspect that the fiscal conservatives will move to the libertarian camp as will I most likely.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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I forgot my smicons for the Rush part.

My intention was not to offend you.

Understood on the interpretation bit. I just think sometimes you overstate your case in regards to overwhelming evidence to the contrary, but I agree to drop it.

We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
http://signicide.blogspot.com/

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No offense taken.

I just think sometimes you overstate your case in regards to overwhelming evidence to the contrary, but I agree to drop it.

Right back at you (actually more at the liberal pundits)!  :) 

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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you're being coy about this and you know it.

the message was crystal clear. And it was wrong, misguided and wrong-headed.

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No, not really.

They said what they said and those statements mean what they mean. The liberal propagandists have twisted the statements to mean things that they were never intended to mean.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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I remember the memes quite well

I sat smirking at the TV as Bush and Co. pushed us toward war with Al Qaeda always some how present in the conversation.

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Isn't al Qaeda who actually attacked us?

Why wouldn't he mention them since they are the first target in the GWOT?

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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Why wouldn't he

Especially that he also mentions that there is no difference between al Qaeda and Saddam. You figure out what he meant. I was taught that if A==B and B==C than A==C. But I could be mistaken, I suppose there might be some sort of logic where that would not be true.

Apparently according to you if al Qaeda was behind 9/11, and "We need to think about Saddam Hussein using al Qaeda to do his dirty work, to not leave fingerprints behind." (to pick one of the numerous quotes linking Saddam and al Qaeda) that does not make a link between 9/11 and Saddam. Does it then maybe imply such link, infers, surmise, allege? Isn't it what happens in the criminal court when pieces of circumstantial evidence are presented and even though none of them directly links the defendant to the crime, they all together prove beyond reasonable doubt that there is no way all that evidence could be left behind if the defendant didn't actually commit the crime?

Sic semper tyrannis

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Beware the GoRight

He says these things just to yank everyone's chain.

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Nope

On this issue I am serious.  Perhaps stating things a bit aggressively, but still well within the bounds of the truth.

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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Thanks for the lies

the incessant lies, the non-stop lies.

Thanks for the enormous debt.

. Thanks for funding the veterans.... with your tax dollars. NOT!

And thanks for not supporting raising taxes to pay for the whole fricking mess so you can claim you have to cut spending on the homefront, while putting a war on the US credit card.

The cowards are those you who refuse to sacrifice one thin dime of their money to fund a war, because you are too damn selfish to take the money out of your pocket and put it where your mouth is.

This is a big fat line of BS, and the American people are sick of it.

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oh and thanks

to mindsets like yours, I would say that the little unpaid for skirmish in the Middle East has spread further, and made us much less safe. See Afhganistan, Pakistan.

Dude you have it completely upside down and backwards.

Yet it still costs trillions and you refuse to pay higher taxes to support the veterans.

Cowards who support an unjust war and won't pay for it.

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Dude, you're arguing semantics

No matter what specific words they used they did create impression that Iraq was involved and that's what the overwhelming majority of people believed.

We're not analyzing a legal contract here where only what's there has any meaning. We're talking about the public statements that were made at different occasions, within different contexts, particular sequence of mentioning 9/11 and Iraq or the frequency of each. If their goal was not to create the impression that Iraq had something to do with 9/11, (like that wasn't their goal) and they did have access to the public opinion polls, they should have published a disclaimer, before they went to war.

Sic semper tyrannis

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Why yes I am ...

in the very real sense that words have meanings (i.e. semantics) and that the statements made by Bush and Cheney don't mean what the liberal propaganda machine claims that they mean.

Note that in my case I am talking about the actual meanings of their statements as discussed in definition 1 below, whereas the liberal propagandists are more in line with definition 3b in that they are playing games by claiming things that are not true to achieve their desired effect on the general public (i.e. to make people believe that Bush actually said that Iraq was involved in the 9/11 attacks which he never did).

Main Entry:
se·man·tics Listen to the pronunciation of semantics
Pronunciation:
\si-ˈman-tiks\
Function:
noun plural but singular or plural in construction
Date: 1893
1: the study of meanings: a: the historical and psychological study and the classification of changes in the signification of words or forms viewed as factors in linguistic development b (1): semiotic (2): a branch of semiotic dealing with the relations between signs and what they refer to and including theories of denotation, extension, naming, and truth
3 a: the meaning or relationship of meanings of a sign or set of signs; especially : connotative meaning b: the language used (as in advertising or political propaganda) to achieve a desired effect on an audience especially through the use of words with novel or dual meanings

Let us review:

(1) Neither Bush nor Cheney actually said that Iraq was involved in the 9/11 attacks, or at least all of you have been unable to produce a direct quote to that effect. You do, however, produce creative interpretations of their statements with a lot of double talk to try and support your claim (see your own posts just above).

(2) Bush has explicitly stated on the record on multiple occasions that Iraq definitely was NOT involved in the 9/11 attacks. I have produced references to these quotes on several occasions.

(3) A large portion of the general public appears to believe that Bush and Cheney claimed that Iraq was involved in the 9/11 attacks. A number of polls have shown this.

So we have a circumstance where neither Bush nor Cheney actually made the claims purported by the liberals and, in fact, Bush explicitly denied those claims on multiple occasions and yet the general public somehow believes exactly what the liberals say they should believe.

Exactly who are the propagandists here?

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

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"Exactly who are the propagandists here?"

You should know :)

Sic semper tyrannis

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A quick check of priorities

I used the search engine on the Cato website to see how many hits I'd get for a variety of terms.

rendition 31
wiretaps 126
guantanamo 168
kelo 169
"second amendment" 255
"fourth amendment" 329
tort 476
"human rights" 892
recession 896
"first amendment" 927
"free speech" 1040
"federal reserve" 1470
dollar 2770
property 5290

Notice that the narrow property rights case Kelo is more talked about than Rendition, wiretaps (warrantless or otherwise) and Guantanamo. Rendition, Wiretaps, guantanamo, first, second, and fourth amendments, human rights, and free speech combined show up less often than the word "property."

That kind of makes Cato's principle concern starkly clear.

I came. I saw. I posted.
Veni, Vidi, Bitchy.

…………

A quick check on liberal oppression ...

See above. This makes the abuses of an overly liberal government starkly clear.

………… parent

What are the chances that ...

Romney will throw his support to Obama so he can screw both Hillary and McCain in one gesture?  :)

I'm the Bugs Bunny of Swords Crossed!
-4 Strongly Disagree - 0 Meh - Strongly Agree +4

…………

You know that pulling out had to be hard for Romney....

...he has about two dozen children.... so we know how much he hates pulling out.

;-)

I survived the Bush Administration

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Also his children can now

fight the good fight against the terrorists since they no longer have to work on his campaign .

Think they'll sign up for the army? :-)

We are all mediators, translators. - Derrida
http://signicide.blogspot.com/

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